tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post4545878659924472286..comments2024-03-09T16:10:28.455+01:00Comments on Shameless Words: A Crash Of SymbolsS. Kearneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03976476273818980832noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-2796474492382071602007-12-12T05:45:00.000+01:002007-12-12T05:45:00.000+01:00Shameless--My brother has the letters in a safe de...Shameless--My brother has the letters in a safe deposit box. I gave Sally Fitzgerald permission to use them in her collection of Flannery's letters, but her (Flannery's) mother, who was still alive at the time, wasn't giving permission for them to be used.steve on the slow trainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18257811143869341854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-18790536020213195632007-12-11T16:17:00.000+01:002007-12-11T16:17:00.000+01:00Steve - Ah, the same man then. :-) Wow. And he was...Steve - Ah, the same man then. :-) Wow. And he was literary editor at Playboy? I didn't know that. It's wonderful what you learn in the blogosphere. And how interesting about Flannery O'Connor writing letters to your mum. Wow. They might be valuable, especially for someone writing his bio. Do they give anything away about his life? His writing? I have a friend in Paris who is translating some Eudora Welty stories into French ... I think they kicked around together. Thanks for this info. I look forward to checking out your blog, Steve. :-)S. Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976476273818980832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-22311718827283377312007-12-11T14:57:00.000+01:002007-12-11T14:57:00.000+01:00Shameless--O'Connor's letters to my mother, which ...Shameless--O'Connor's letters to my mother, which were just signed "Flannery," also referred to Macauley as just "Robie." I never knew the correct spelling, which is why Google didn't help me. Maybe if I had read more Playboy in my adolescence, as he was literary editor in the '60s(eventually you look at the articles), I would have seen his name. After finding his NYT obituary, I know it's the same man.steve on the slow trainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18257811143869341854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-7963342364253599932007-12-11T14:00:00.000+01:002007-12-11T14:00:00.000+01:00Steve - Hello and welcome! Good to have you stop b...Steve - Hello and welcome! Good to have you stop by. And how interesting about your family's connection with Robie Macauley ... if it's the same man; I see your fellow is spelt differently. The writer of the book I quoted definitely has a small C and an a after the M. If it's the same person, what a small world, eh? And yes, the video is a scream. I love these kinds of parodies! :-)S. Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976476273818980832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-32966769029200312512007-12-11T05:22:00.000+01:002007-12-11T05:22:00.000+01:00Just got through with the video--too bizarre to be...Just got through with the video--too bizarre to be believed. But the same could be said for Bush's occupation policies.steve on the slow trainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18257811143869341854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-8463004706130741262007-12-11T02:27:00.000+01:002007-12-11T02:27:00.000+01:00I don't do a lot of fiction, but my use of symboli...I don't do a lot of fiction, but my use of symbolism tends toward the obvious--a character named Gershom ("I have been a stranger in a strange land), but then, he gives the name to himself. But I'm curious about Robie McCauley--there can't be that many of them. My parents were in the Iowa Writers' Workshop with McCauley in the late 1940s, and I have copies of letters from Flannery O'Connor mentioning him.steve on the slow trainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18257811143869341854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-447618091255483132007-12-06T18:59:00.000+01:002007-12-06T18:59:00.000+01:00Church Lady - Hi and welcome yes, wasn't it a blas...Church Lady - Hi and welcome yes, wasn't it a blast! :-)S. Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976476273818980832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-67213076297676064512007-12-06T11:34:00.000+01:002007-12-06T11:34:00.000+01:00hahahaha! That's a good video.(Here in the States,...hahahaha! That's a good video.<BR/><BR/>(Here in the States, reporters aren't allowed to drink on air)<BR/>;-)Chris Eldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794946908789120139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-31034954481923631332007-12-05T18:55:00.000+01:002007-12-05T18:55:00.000+01:00Jessica - Yes, it was an honour to itv Goodall for...Jessica - Yes, it was an honour to itv Goodall for a radio documentary I did on development in Tanzania. I was so impressed, and she was such a friendly person. I will definitely look out for her book. And yes, yes and yes re the sandcastle, unless, as you say, it's deliberately meant to be a "hitchcocky" moment. <BR/><BR/>Debi - Ooopss!! Yes, it WAS a typo! Sorry. That should've read LAUGHED. How funny. Nice to know though that I have loving on the brain. That must be Absolute Vanilla's influence in her wonderful post on "interconnecting"! :-) lolS. Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976476273818980832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-62940505550338525672007-12-05T17:40:00.000+01:002007-12-05T17:40:00.000+01:00Oh Shamey - you suddenly changed your avatar for t...Oh Shamey - you suddenly changed your avatar for that last comment and it's thrown me ... and then you also say you 'loved for ages' - it would be great if that's NOT a typo ...<BR/><BR/>Ah yes - that video. Classic stuff. Symbolic all right - but not in the way they intended. Symbollock, more like.Debihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09600815804658702077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-78930662524271586532007-12-05T17:14:00.000+01:002007-12-05T17:14:00.000+01:00Wow, you interviewed Jane Goodall. Cool. The book ...Wow, you interviewed Jane Goodall. Cool. The book was very enjoyable--if you get a chance to read it I'd like to hear your impressions of the chimps (not literally of course, unless you really want to bark and jump up and down and scratch yourself in odd places). Some of them are just so interesting--more personality than others I suppose. <BR/><BR/>A scene like the sandcastle one, if in a Hollywood film would have the melodramatic music--"THIS IS A MOMENT" sort of thing. Very trite. The only way something like that could work is if there was humor in it or something to reverse the cliche because as is, it is just too forced an image. One of the reasons I don't admire Spielberg's films--they are beautiful to look at but very forced on the emotions/metaphors. European filmmakers are much better at symbolism--they're just more "adult" about it.unarexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16899161531166793753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-77249959108251343652007-12-05T14:55:00.000+01:002007-12-05T14:55:00.000+01:00Jessica - I like that: Spielberg images! :-) And o...Jessica - I like that: Spielberg images! :-) And oh yes, examples like that (perhaps less exaggerated) are littered through books I read ... you wonder how they manage to get through editors. And I'm glad you shared my enthusiasm for that video. I LOVED it. Also, I just read your review on the book by the chimp expert Jane Goodall. I must buy this. She is an extraordinary woman. I interviewed her in Tanzania in 2001 re development projects for people living in rural areas. She is awesome in her approach/ideas on how this planet needs to be managed. :-) <BR/><BR/>Absolute V - Yes, good word to apply here - judicious use! :-) I'm also glad you found the video hysterical. I loved for ages and had tears in my eyes!!S. Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976476273818980832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-24406422483318941922007-12-05T13:03:00.000+01:002007-12-05T13:03:00.000+01:00Ah yes symbolism, great if it happens naturally, o...Ah yes symbolism, great if it happens naturally, of it's own accord within the context of the story - but utterly bloody horrible when deliberately constructed. Judicious use is best. <BR/>And that clip was hysterical and cringeworthy!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871239587214383387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-57635671099412034112007-12-05T02:08:00.000+01:002007-12-05T02:08:00.000+01:00All those examples are, as you say, way too obviou...All those examples are, as you say, way too obvious and cliched. The one about the sandcastle though is the worst, but I suppose it is arguable. I'm glad to know that turns you off. Whenever I read stuff like that my eyes begin to wander. The sandcastle: too precious, trying too hard to evoke emotion rather than allowing the scene itself to do it. I call those "Spielberg images" i.e. the need to hit you over the head with the obvious. Those are examples of a writer trying too hard. But I've seen many an image like that by big named writers and all I can say is lazy, lazy, lazy!<BR/><BR/>That video was very funny--that commentator and the comment about the Taxi and calling him a bastard.<BR/><BR/>I like all your graffiti.unarexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16899161531166793753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-87788229479252024742007-12-04T19:25:00.000+01:002007-12-04T19:25:00.000+01:00Puresunshine - Yes, funny you mention over-the-top...Puresunshine - Yes, funny you mention over-the-top symbolism. The dark cat kind of stuff. A colleague told me today that the jam on the butter knife would work in a certain kind of book ... a Hitchcockesque kind of slant. Interesting.S. Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976476273818980832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-18766327469369927822007-12-04T19:06:00.000+01:002007-12-04T19:06:00.000+01:00The sandcastle one was good. I agree symbolism is ...The sandcastle one was good. I agree symbolism is best when subtle. When reading something over and over again can bring it out. Have u read the play the glass menagerie by Tennessee Williams. Isn't it so subtle there? And also Look Back In Anger by Osborne. However, at times over the top symbolism works. Especially with horror fiction. Look at Poe. He is a master at that!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353823072805304712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-1855690916827985092007-12-04T14:09:00.000+01:002007-12-04T14:09:00.000+01:00Marie - Hi! Yes, tricky one, especially when we're...Marie - Hi! Yes, tricky one, especially when we're the ones writing, but beneath the surface and subtle seems to be the way. :-)<BR/><BR/>Casdok - Hello and welcome. :-) Thanks for your visit and I hope you'll be back.S. Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976476273818980832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-30465648213924378062007-12-04T08:33:00.000+01:002007-12-04T08:33:00.000+01:00Interesting post!Interesting post!Casdokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03497897393162856190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-49315816321659785402007-12-03T23:18:00.000+01:002007-12-03T23:18:00.000+01:00I can see what you mean about them being too obvio...I can see what you mean about them being too obvious. I agree, symbolism is best hiding 'beneath the surface'.Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08507037483019197630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-72177571729315531132007-12-03T22:54:00.000+01:002007-12-03T22:54:00.000+01:00Colleen - Funny how the castle has been popular fo...Colleen - Funny how the castle has been popular for some ... minus the last bit of it. And I'm not sure what blogger is doing to you. Blocking a link back to your site? I see a link my end, so I'm not sure what you mean. :-)<BR/><BR/>Billy - Goodness, yes, I remember having to find obscure symbolism in literature at school ... our teachers always saw so much more than there really was in the piece. We once had an actual author dispute the symbolism one of our teacher's identified in her work ... having come across the analysis in some kid's book. Not that the teacher was wrong, but sometimes we dig deeper than anyone else would go, not even the author!<BR/><BR/>Vesper - Yes, it's always good to have little reminders like this, before we go spreading jam over the butter knives! :-)<BR/><BR/>Julie - Hi and welcome! :-) Good to have you stop by. Oh that whole subject of interpreting dreams. Wow, that is one whole area I do love to explore, having had a few bizarre experiences! I would love to be here in a couple of centuries to find the true answers to all that. I'm sure they will crack it one day ... if the planet is still here! :-)<BR/><BR/>Marja - Best not to get too bogged down in the rules anyway, especially if it stops the creative juices flowing! :-) It's good to have some guidelines I think, but not to let that hinder the process or take the pleasure out of writing!<BR/><BR/>Pearl - Actually it was the taxi bit that got me ... and the mention of the cushions ... near the end ... not the actual end, end, although that was terrific too. The one word answer and then the itv being cut off! Priceless! :-) Maybe it's because that is my line of work (TV news) and I can relate to it so much. :-)S. Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03976476273818980832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-53871110863605101492007-12-03T22:16:00.000+01:002007-12-03T22:16:00.000+01:00The ending with the face covered suggested the imp...The ending with the face covered suggested the imperial generic depot as the American one. Is that what bonked your funny bone?Pearlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05251168248457758117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-62825445432501309302007-12-03T21:23:00.000+01:002007-12-03T21:23:00.000+01:00Hi Seamus. I see what you mean it is all a bit too...Hi Seamus. I see what you mean it is all a bit too thick, although to be honest i didn't mind the sandcastle one (Great Castle btw)<BR/>I love writing stories, poetry and articles. I love experimenting and <BR/>just letting it flow. I am not very literate and educated. All these rules frighten me a little.<BR/>On the other side it is good to be concious of these things.Marjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17458942200244031009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-75205413407439842652007-12-03T18:18:00.000+01:002007-12-03T18:18:00.000+01:00Appreciated this post.Just passing and rather obli...Appreciated this post.<BR/><BR/>Just passing and rather oblique comment, but have recently been looking into metaphoric/symbolic dream states; in one experiment researchers took dreams, cut them at a significant point and shuffled them to see whether test team could re-match them accurately re content. They couldn't.<BR/><BR/>One theory is to do with unfinished arousal (pgo spikes) the brain is trying to complete unfinished arousal states in waking. In depression, dreaming time doubles - and that's why we wake up exhausted. Uses up brain chemicals, apparently. Not worth stressing out....!virtual nexushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11955335598875413324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-59041929870595234862007-12-03T18:05:00.000+01:002007-12-03T18:05:00.000+01:00Very interesting post, Seamus. All examples are qu...Very interesting post, Seamus. All examples are quite obvious - but they were meant as examples. Something to think about...Vesperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12417602625059442986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22117802.post-89409500208510170712007-12-03T17:55:00.000+01:002007-12-03T17:55:00.000+01:00Seamus, really thought-provoking post. God knows ...Seamus, really thought-provoking post. God knows high school students and most of the population already gripe about having to analyze symbolism, and as a former English teacher, most people can't understand truly good symbolism (the fault of the educational system), but I surely agree with you that subtlty wins out every time--something beneath the surface, like a clue in a motion picture that no one picks up on until the end of the film. As for the three choices, none really "got" me.WHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14815646433314236886noreply@blogger.com